An Interview With John Westcott of Exchange MinistriesJohn Westcott is the Executive Director of Exchange Ministries, a not-for-profit ministry that offers hope, healing and wholeness to the relationally and sexually wounded. He sat down with Real Life magazine for an interview to discus his ministry, the Church, homosexuality and freedom in Christ.
Real Life: In a nutshell, tell us a little about Exchange Ministries.
John Westcott: A woman by the name of Gala Durrance started the ministry in Orlando back in 1982. Then, it was called Behold Ministries. In 1984, the name was changed to Eleutheros Incorporated, then to Exchange Ministries in 2000. We started as a ministry to proclaim freedom from homosexuality.
RL: What does the term “freedom from homosexuality” mean?
JW: I mean that homosexuality no longer defines or controls anyone. It is simply a sin just like every other sin. In the Church today, we have elevated homosexuality to this big, political, humongous agenda. It’s become “the big sin,” “the bad sin.” Many of us in the Body of Christ, including myself, remember the days of Jerry Falwell and all the bashing that went on against people who are gay-identified. Homosexuality was called an abomination and people were told they were going to Hell. Homosexuality isn’t what sends people to Hell; it’s sin that sends people to Hell. Heterosexuals go to Hell just like homosexuals.
RL: In what areas is the Church ignorant of the issues attached with homosexuality?
JW: Homosexuality is a manifestation of a much bigger issue. Homosexuality is simply the behavior. Underneath that behavior, there is a lot of woundedness and brokenness. If we get to know people who are struggling with same-sex attraction — homosexuality and lesbianism — the amazing thing is we find out that they are just people who are hurting inside and want to be loved, accepted and validated by other people.
RL: What draws people into homosexuality?
JW: Men have a need to be affirmed and accepted by other men. They’ve had that need since they were little boys with their moms and dads. That’s where it all starts. It also has to do with their relationship with their peers and goes from childhood to puberty and beyond. It’s all about what they think about themselves as a person.
RL: We know all people are different, but are their common denominators that we attribute to most people trapped in same-sex attraction?
JW: There really is. One of those things is the breakdown in parent-child same-sex relationship [a son with his father, a daughter with her mother]. That doesn’t mean that our parents were bad. In my case, my dad was not a bad person. He provided food, clothing and shelter, and he never beat me or abused me. But he never talked to me. It was neglect. My dad didn’t go out of his way to neglect me, but he worked two jobs. So, growing up, I longed for my father to just notice that I was even in the room, to acknowledge me as a person.
RL: Is this the case with many homosexuals?
JW: Absolutely. They want to connect with their fathers. They know that their dads love them, but they didn’t feel that "connect" with them or that "affirmation" from them. If you remember the story from the Book of Luke of Jesus at the age of 12, His parents had gone to Jerusalem for the Passover. When it was over, they left to go home and were on the road for a day before Mary, Jesus’ mother said, “Where’s Jesus?” When they went back to the Temple, they found Him preaching. When they asked Him what He was doing, He said, “Why are you worried? I had to be about my Father’s business.” We see there the longing of the son to be in the presence of his Father. I remember once reading a story about a father and a son where the son said that he used to love just laying in the field with his dad, just looking at the clouds or sitting on a dock. They weren’t doing anything in particular, just spending time together. But the boy used to think that there was this brown ooze being transferred from his father to him. It was a very neat experience. It’s all about that imparting of the father, the blessing of the father. If you look at the Old Testament, it was never the mother who blessed the children; it was the father.
RL: This “blessing from the father” you talk about, is this something missing from may father-son relationships?
JW: Today, there are hundreds of thousands of men and women in the world — and thousands in the Church — who are longing that love from their dads and to be validated by them.
RL: What are some of the things the Church needs to understand about homosexuals?
JW: We need to understand that people who struggle with homosexuality aren’t any different from us. They have the same hopes, dreams and desires as the rest of us and like to do the same kind of activities. In many ways, we’re all the same. One of the only differences between those who struggle with homosexuality and those who don’t is what they do in the bedroom.
RL: That seems like an oversimplification.
JW: Not really. If you remember back to the 1970s and ’80s, the Church kind of made homosexuality THE grotesque, dirty and filthy thing. Some of that may be true, but it’s also true in heterosexuality. Look at pornography. Two years ago, pornography outdid all the major sports — baseball, football, basketball and hockey put together — in revenue. So, whatever is true of the worst side of homosexuality is also true of heterosexuality.
RL: What has Exchange Ministries done to help those struggling with same-sex attraction?
JW: For the past 26 years, we have proclaimed that people don’t have to be controlled and defined by that kind of attraction. We deal with the reality that your gender identity is what you believe about yourself. I pose that question to every man and woman who is reading this interview: Ask yourself: Growing up, what did you think about yourself as a little boy or little girl? What did you think of yourself when you were six, when you were nine, when you went through puberty? Did you feel that you fit in with all the other boys or girls? That doesn’t mean that you liked to do all the same things they did, but did you feel like you were a part of them? James Dobson has used the term “kitchen-window” boys for those who think they don’t fit it. These, he said, are boys who looked on while other boys were interacting and playing with each other. They’ve had so much longing and desire to fit in, but they always felt that they were looking in from the outside.
RL: What do we learn from this?
JW: It is from the ages of 2 to 15 that we are supposed to come to a secure identity of who we are. If we have a secure identity of who we are, we are going to turn to the opposite sex. But if certain things happen along the way — like a breakdown of relationships with our dad, with our peers, a sexual violation — then we often end up turning to the same sex.
RL: And that’s where Exchange Ministries can help?
JW: Yes. We are here for people who have prayed and fasted most of their lives for God to take away this sin, this struggle. But because it didn’t go away, many of these people finally gave up and began to hear that they must be gay. Therefore, they bought into the lie. What people have said — that people are born gay — must be right. It’s only when people find out that it [the gay lifestyle] really doesn’t work, that they hear the truth, or are then open to the truth that they don’t have to be gay.
RL: What about all these reports we hear that, indeed, people are born gay?
JW: Of course, the world today calls it an “alternative lifestyle” and there’s nothing you can do about it. But the truth is, there is no scientific or biological data to show that people are born gay. We are products of our environment — relationally, the things that have happened to us in our lives, things said and not said. They all impact us today. We are who we are based on our past relationships.
RL: What is your objective when people come to you?
JW: We’re not here to brainwash them. We’re here to help those struggling with gay identity to work that out. We do that by helping them to understand the truth. The Word of God says that the “truth will set you free.” We start with the truth, in this case, that they are not born gay. We then help them build loving, healthy, affirming relationships with people in the Body of Christ.
RL: Is that a challenge?
JW: Definitely. We want those struggling with homosexuality to build strong relationships with Christian men, but that’s not easy. You know how men are. You ask them how they’re doing and they all say they are fine. But the reality is, most of us aren’t fine. What we really want most is someone to talk to and someone who will listen to us. That can be hard to find. That’s why we provide a safe and healthy place where people struggling with same-sex attraction can come and address those issues.
RL: What are some of the ways you assure people right from the start?
JW: We let them know that they’re not alone and shouldn’t be defined by either their gay lifestyle or they homosexual tendencies. We try to show them who they are as men.
RL: What other services does Exchange Ministries provide?
JW: We have a spouses' group for those who found out that their husbands are cheating on them [with other men], or some who have never cheated but have same-sex attractions. We provide a support group for these spouses and help them to walk through this journey. We also have a group for parents. There are thousands of parents out there who have heard the message from their son or daughter, “Mom, dad, I’m gay.” Most of the parents call me to say that their children just won’t change, no matter what. For the parents, we’re a refuge where they can come and meet other parents going through the same thing. They support each other in the belief that their prodigal sons and daughters will return to the Lord their God.
RL: For the person reading this interview who is struggling with same-sex attraction and has never dealt with it, is it tough to make that first phone call for help?
JW: Absolutely. There are so many people out there struggling. Statistics say 3 percent of the population is homosexual, but I believe it’s higher because there are so many kids who are getting involved in it. There are obviously people out there struggling and have never told anyone. They are scared to death because they remember how the Church has responded to them and others. It’s like that well-known analogy, “The Church is the only army that shoots their wounded.” People come to us and say, “I’m wounded, I’m hurting and I’m broken, will you help me?” But too often, we have put them out to pasture. They come to us whether it is homosexuality or pornography, and we tell them that we don’t know what to do. That is why the hardest thing for the people who are struggling to do is to tell someone.
RL: How common is this?
JW: I remember in my own life and over the past 15 years, I have heard story after story of people who took years to finally tell someone that they were struggling. There are many who finally got the courage to tell their pastor, only to have him reject them. It’s not that the pastor does not want to reach out to them, after all, that is their job as a shepherd. He is to love, protect and take care of the sheep. That pastor doesn’t have to be someone who knows everything about same-sex attraction, just someone who will listen, hear that person’s heart, pray for them, then find the resources to help them. That’s why it is so hard for those struggling to pick up the phone for that first time.
RL: What happens when someone finally does make that phone call?
JW: It’s a tremendous weight lifted off of his or her shoulders. Over and over again I have heard this comment: “I feel so much better now that I’ve called you.” The next step is coming in to see me, because now you’re going to see someone face to face. When people come into my office, for the first time in their lives they tell me about experiences they’ve had that they have never told anyone before. They talk about hurts and wounds and violations and know that there is someone who can empathize with them, who can be compassionate and who can love them. I’ve had grown men — 20, 40 or 50 years old — who have come into my office and have wept like babies and say for the first time in their lives they have someone who understands.
RL: What’s the next step?
JW: That would be walking into a group for the first time. I tell everyone in the group, “Look to your left and look to your right. Everyone in here has something in their closet.” We all have something. The truth is, there is no condemnation and shame for those who are in Christ Jesus. That’s why I encourage people who are struggling or have a friend or family member who is struggling to pick up the phone and call.
RL: How do individuals who know or a friend or family member struggling with homosexuality minister to him or her?
JW: It’s simple. Forget that they struggle with homosexuality. How would you minister to someone who doesn’t struggle with homosexuality? How would you minister to someone who is lying, cheating or stealing? How would you minister to someone who is treating their spouse badly? You reach out and speak the truth in love. We’re so afraid of offending, but that’s wrong. We need to speak the truth. Build a relationship with that person. If you need help confronting a person who is struggling with same-sex attraction, call us and we’ll help you.
RL: Share a closing thought with us.
JW: The one thing that really gets under my skin is that we make homosexuality the worst sin. When I was in it, I remember all the bad signs and bad slogans about homosexuality. Why would I go to this church and say, “Please help me?” We need to be a church that is sensitive to the needs of the people struggling with homosexuality and welcome them and be able to speak the truth to them.
For more information, you may contact Exchange Ministries at 407-514-4356, info@exchangeministries.org. or visit their website at www.exchangeministries.org.